The situation is under control, please be wary of what you hear.

I don't think we will have any cases of misinformation. I believe you and me have answered every DM correctly regarding the whole situation.

Now we only have to wait

if there's another creators.tf discord server, im not in it,, so im very out of the loop of what exactly happened

if anyone has the time, i would like to know what exactly happened, since i see people drawing vastly different conclusions on twitter

i havent made any assumptions yet, hope you guys can recover from this

Jonathan resigned after a personal conflict with another staff member. Basically it was the tip of the iceberg after everything the staff team has gone through. And since Johnny owns every server and is no longer a part of the team, he shut the down. No servers, no bots, no site, no game servers. If you saw the announcement Connall made the DB has been transferred so nothing regarding items and stuff is lost, but every service is down. After that, Connall will also step down as a mod because he doesn't want to risk his friendship just because of a Discord drama. The server started going to shit as always, people panicking, spamming and using racial slurs thinking they will get covered from other messages. Staff vote to lockdown. Lockdown. (edit: Connall has two n)(edited)

this sounds much more realistic than the rumors ive been seeing, thank you

No problem

I'm hoping there'll be a more wide clarification of the situation in the near future. I haven't made any assumptions, though there are a lot of things being said and at least for creators.tf's sake it may be wise to clear out the major ones. You guys seem like nice folk but I'm sure a lot of people haven't had the privilege of getting familiar with you guys like we have. Good luck with the situation, hope you guys will fix whatever is going on back there

Public announcement will be made but right after we get the services running again.

There's not so much actually happened.

Comparatively to what you could've expect.

Not too much damage has been caused.

So we're fine.

Id you want a tl;dr

Good to know, situation seemed more serious from drama queens around certain communities I suppose. Looking forward to the PA

Our server guy was arguing with other staff member and he decided to leave the team and pulled all the plugs.

That's pretty much what happened.

Not a very smart way out, but what happened that has happened.

He could've just wait for me to wake up, help migrate the servers from his owned servers and minimize the damage.

Okay! Well, fits with everything I've been hearing from trustable sources. People are people I guess, can't predict them

Database is backed up(edited)

Codebase is stored into the private repos

So we're fine in terms of backend and content.

Just need to roll out some more servers.

Fortunately, we've got some more Patreon money in reserve, so that's doable.

Well, I'm sure by the next week or so it'll all go back to being relatively normal?

web server will be public in a few hours

EU servers - in a day or so

Like I said, damage is not that big

Very cool. Good luck w/ sorting out everything regardless though! til' then

just catching up to everything now. Sorry you guys have been through this. Sucks when you were doing so much good stuff.

I've got a stream on Saturday with SalTV. Should I look for an alternative server or will there be something alive then? I think Eric is NA based ???(edited)

I would think servers will be mostly back by then

okay, that's cool. Thanks.

ping me if you want a tweet boost when everything recovers

itd be in Chicago

if NA

by this stage though you've almost as many followers on twitter so not sure how much of a boost you'll get from me

Chicago works

most of the 4chan stuff is false

the vipes embezzlement is especially false and was constructed by a group that stalks Vipes and tries to fuck with him nonstop

idk if we're gonna hve chi by tmoro agro

but we'll get to that once everything is up and running and we can take the time to properly address all the 4chan stuff(edited)

4chan """leaks""" looks fake as shit anyways took a look earlier and, i have never seen a more deranged group of people in my entire life

mhm

that's why i pay no mind to the thread, aside from the 2 or 3 times i replied to clarify something

mostly the whole vipes embezzlement thing idiots kept dragging up

i'm not sure if the internet is what led to people behaving this way, or if they always behaved this way and nobody knew it because there wasn't any internet

well, that's a mystery we'll take to our graves i suppose

@cheddZy The image of my purchases, while real, is completely missing context. See, I have two items in TF2. What you saw was me spending my royalty money on a game most people hate but I like. It was fully my money, free for me to spend as wish.

Probably the one thing I'm curious about is the context behind the voice convo of Tyler wanting this Tom guy removed from the team for saying tranny

I'm just the art/items guy. I can't speak for that as I wasn't even there.

I can't speak on what specifically that individual said as I can't remember the exact phrasing but I do recall it came out of left field and its usage could've been replaced with a better word. Tyler called for a removal vote of this individual which I alone agreed to. I don't think my vote was heard as my WiFi is crap on my deck (where I was sitting during the vc on my phone). I forget how many of us were in there and who all was in there but I don't think there was a large # of people. Probably like 5 or 6. Majority felt like it wasn't an issue so nothing was done. I'm probably in that leaked vc but I don't care to pay attention to 4chan and their dysfunction.

It has since been resolved though.

That’s basically what it boils down to

It was a moment of poor judgement, let's just leave it at that

Not workplace appropriate language, doesn’t come out of a place of hate. Am bi gf is trans had to go to therapy for gender dysphoria as a teen

Etc etc

I also should say I would retract my vote for removal

If a vote were to be called again

I was trying to keep you safe touge

tougeFoodService 404UNF

Cause you don't deserve any bs over that

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone deserves a second chance.

Lord knows I've had my share of second chances

As a trans person myself, I'm not trying to be offensive but I never knew or seen why that word is offensive or derogatory. Imo it sounds nicknamey than offensive, but it seems I'm wrong on that but personally it doesnt offend me

Like every other word it’s context and action dependent

I’m Mexican, I grew up in a Mexican household. In our culture what you say, the jokes you make and the words you use don’t mean that you’re against people. It’s only when your words match your actions does it become an issue.

Yeah I had said that trap is a word that some trans people find offensive and some don't. Tranny is a case of the same thing. It depends on the person. Some of my trans friends dislike those words, some don't.

I can see the cultural disconnect and how it could put off non Mexicans though.

Isnt trap more of a femboy who doesnt tell you he's a guy?

I'm 32 and was taught as a kid the old "there are two genders, boys have a penis, girls have a vagina" stuff. I'm still learning all this new gender stuff and discovering all these new words that have bad meaning behind them that I never knew before

I'm not sure lol. Some of my trans friends see it as meaning that any trans women/men are "pretending" to be that gender and are acting as a "trap" to hetero people which is just sounds ridiculous to me when said out loud but I get where they're coming from

Ridiculous as in, how could anyone legitimately believe that in their heart

you call me a tranny in real life i'll fuckin knock you out

That is what trap means but it’s dumb because the Japanese word that it’s derived from has 0 implications of deceiving someone about their sex

dont get this wrong here - it is definitely a slur and should be treated as such

We need a female demo version of

:shesright:

it doesnt matter what you think it means, the word tr*p directly leads to violence against trans women because it perpetuates the myth that trans women are trying to "trick" (trap) men into having sex with them or finding them attractive

One of my trans friends is like a 2nd sister to me

Call me whatever you want, I don’t care lol. As long as there’s no hate behind what someone’s saying I don’t care.

Just don’t call people what they’re uncomfortable with

Judge people by their actions, not the color of their skin, gender, sexuality or race

P much yeah

Ive never heard trap ever used in a trans gendered form. Ive always seen it as the anime thing where it's a boy who identifies as a boy crossdressed as a girl. Urban dictionary also defines it as that too

well i have

And here’s where context, intent and nuance are helpful

why are we having this conversation in the visitors channel

btw(edited)

Not sure

?purge

i dont

dyno is not in here

so

@stephanie someone asked about the leaked vc

It kinda stemmed off of that

That was me .3.

If I may I just want to throw my two cents into the ring after hearing this recording: (edited)

i agree

i can be a bit impulsive (thank you ADHD)

i get this need to defend things when shit gets blown out of proportion

and i'mma stop doing that from now on

404 we have more in common than we thought

no-one ever said Jon was being racist

ADHD is a bitch lmao I literally just got my medications 2 days ago

I was just reading the document so my apologies.

i've been on every ADHD med out there throughout my 32 years

currently on vyvanse and wellbutrin, working pretty well when i remember to take it or haven't slept in until 5pm(edited)

Adderall changed my life tbh

Same here but I gained a ton of weight on it and it's supposed to cause weight loss

I was at 270lbs when I started taking Vyvanse (60mg at first) and within a year with no exercise, a lot of sitting at my PC and smoking weed, I dropped 100lbs

i've lost a bit

turns out the dosage was too high and my system was in overdrive

now i'm down at 40mg which is still maintaining my low weight (that I used to be before I started taking adderall) which is nice

40 mg jesus

are vyvanse dosages usually that high?

i guess so

my doctor is a young dude, really knows what he's doing. started me on a high dosage to see how it would help me and then we've been working the dosage down every few months to where i'm at now

@404UNF care to explain?

I'm getting really tired of getting told this.

lmao

i joined to jokingly suggest boba forgot to ban a problematic member and used a picture of him

nothing more than that

All due respect you need to learn to shut up and just drop things sometimes.

i had heard he was banned people for posting project 2006 model renders and such and apparently lumped innocent people in with Laggies

i can't joke with someone lmao

people are too over sensitive

like learn to take a good natured ribbing

I know you two have not had the best past but this is not needed.

boba tbh should be booted from the main discord

I disagree.

considering he's only there to wait for drama and shit talk moonly

He should be allowed to shit talk Moonly within reason.

that happened shortly after the situation with jon went down

I campaigned for and personally believed that anybody should be allowed to criticise anybody without it becoming a shouting match.

when i think you pinged @ everyone

he hadn't spoken much before that

quite opportunistic

the situation wasn't even about moonly

and yet he tried to make it so

Also, for the record. There is communication between the mods in the mod chat, you are only able to view the mod chat. And yesterday was a pretty bad day and a mod's priorities is to understand the situation, make an estimate of what has to be done and then talk with the other mods (and t mods). Also, considering the fact that the majority of mods live in European time zones, it wasn't really helpful because we had to catch up with everything and deal with the server itself.

Yes but I can't see that.

Despite the fact it was a bad day you should've told me as well.

Tell you what? The first chat I spoke in when I woke up is the tmod chat, while I was watching the chat go nuts, talking to Connall about what was going on and trying to understand.

And if I am not mistaken, I pinged everyone in the tmod chat not the mod chat because I also wanted your vote whether we should lockdown or not

You did.

However, when the situation first developed, I had no word on what the hell was going on. I had to goto 404 and Jonathan to get any information.

I appreciate that you guys did end up talking to me later on.

But it would've been really useful it I had it earlier.

You would have had the information earlier if we also knew what was going on. The only people that knew were 404 as a staff member, Connall because it was about his friend and Jonathan. Then I woke up and got informed, then I had to inform you and then I had to inform every single other mod about what was happening

And all of that through phone, you may say it doesn't matter but oh yeah it does

Okay. I'm beginning to understand why there was no initial contact.

I'm sorry for attempting to start shit but this was just how I've been feeling.

Being put into this as a literal day 1 mod is not fun

Yeah, no one should have gone through this, especially during their trial period

But

I have to admit

You shown courage and determination

Which is great and appreciated

Because we need an extra pair of hands

And we will need them especially today that we will unlock the server

I reckon that we don't open up the server until we can find a time where we can have a lot of hands on deck.

Or whenever we unlock it

Because there'll be an initial wave of spam that will come

We have dealt with this kind of spam in the previous lockdown. The thing is that if anyone else got accepted they should already be a tmod. And Jota didn't announce someone and considering he pinged and announced you and pyroshi become mods, you are most likely the only ones

The balance mod servers heartbeat response should just be fixed instead of just having this message(edited)

IK it's temporary but it's just kinda like a CmonBruh moment

While I don't want to overstep any boundaries or insert myself into things I have no business in, I do want to put my two cents in about the slur blocker. From what I heard on Tyler's stream, it filters out the same words as the csgo/dota chat filters. I feel things would've gone over much easier if that was further stressed, as there are some legitimate concerns that this could be language policing. If it was explicitly clear that this is the same chat filter that valve is using for other games then I feel any concerns of language policing would have been stopped then and there Some of the things Tyler said on stream yesterday also sort of gave off the vibe of "if you don't want a chat filter then you're racist". If I had language policing concerns, that would have only exasterbated things. (It also wasnt very reassuring when he said "well yeah, I'm gonna censor people" on stream)

Like I said I don't want to stick my nose into places it shouldnt be, I just wanted to share my opinion

Noone knows for sure how exactly will it perform, hence that's still a topic of discussion. Tyler might have exaggerated that too much on his stream tho, I think.

I expect it to act like a client-side filter that is completely optional.

Ah okay

Well if its optional now nobody can complain

Yet people still do complain

Comes with the territory

I think it should be a vote on whether it should be allowed.

And it should be clear what the features would be.

i mean making it off by default but something you can toggle on wouldn't hurt anyone

Exactly this. Runescape has it on by default but we can have ours off by default to quell the censorship stuff. If anyone is still complaining after that, it'll just come across like they don't want other people to censor stuff so they have to read the slurs

i once again am asking why it is a problem that slurs are by default censored

the goalpost literally keeps moving with this and its pissing me off

first it was "its ok to automatically mute people for saying slurs" and somehow weve migrated all the way to "we're going to have an ineffective chat filter with no automuting and it defaults to off, also"

Because if we go any other route the channies will cry censorship

And?

It's a case of yeah they suck as human beings but let's try to avoid any future drama as best we can

mama didnt raise no pussy

There are now official options to disable chat or they can mute those people being offensive which will also mute that user's chat messages

i dont give a shit if 4channers are upset that they cant say the n word

Yeah there is disabling chat entirely but some folks do want to chat and not see racist talk(edited)

The best comparison I can make is the neural dampener from Rick and morty

according to tyler "news network" mcblevins theyre (valve) implementing a chat filter

but i dont believe that

If we don't let them fly, the terrorists win

Valve did put a filter in csgo

in tf2

Slur filter although it does handle sexual terms

Misses a few though like clitoris

But I don't get why they'd censor stuff like vagina

Yeah people call each other a pussy but I've never heard anyone say vagina when pussy was blocked

i just want to type without being instantly called a t----y dude(edited)

scuse me

We can combine the slur filter with moderation as well

If they're just going nonstop with the shit talk, we can fully chat/voice mute them

It is "our" servers and we are providing this service for the people to use so it really is our decision how we handle it

Like I said, you can mute a single person and that will also hide their text. You dont need to entirely disable chat

I guess if some people put up a fuss and leave about a default on slur filter that can easily be turned off, then we didnt want those folks playing on our stuff to begin with

I get the free speech argument but allowing people to call transgender folks slurs is not free speech in the least bit(edited)

Combining the filter with moderation is the best bet

and seems to be the most popular one

The bigger problem with it is how subjective it. Because what you and many others find offensive. Many others may not. Like how people think the nword without a hard r is offensive, while many others use it has a term for their bud or hokie, words like that. Then there is also context which context is very important, and of course the many dozens and dozens of work arounds to get past this system, assuming you are talking of this auto filter. Personally I think with how large of a staff team creators seems to have, it would be better to just stick with traditional punishing them by people reporting them and trusting on their community to also go against the toxicity so every one has a good time(edited)

i'm not writing a chat filter that does nothing

I fail to see how it does nothing if it's there for the people who want to use it

it's at the least being defaulted to censoring the single word

thats what ive been told

?

could you explain i'm not following

very tired meds wearing off

like if you say the n word

itll show up - - - - - -

or well

******

for like

Slurs

that's fair

it is not even close to fair and is actually leagues more permissive than should be allowed in my opinion

but its something

which is more than Nothing

I think whatever valve does is the best option

we'll see?

i guess?

like if they enable it by default we should do that

and just be upfront

waiting on valve is not the option

that we are only following valve

if they do that (which i doubt) id be ok with it

they already have

I have 0 issue with taking valve's approach, that's the entire reason this project exists in the first place

Their first update tackling the name change bots or whatever they are broke our medieval mvm plugin.

i think when people complain about their free speech being censored, theyre not actually advocating for free speech; they're hiding the fact that they really wanna make offensive jokes the whole time they play and they don't wanna lose the ability to say slurs. the only rebuttal i can think of is that censoring obviously bad words can lead to a slippery slope to actually unecessary censorship, but transparency and reliable communication with the community would fix that. i don't see what reason you could bring for turning chat filters off by default, it only leads to the permittance of hateful speech which can be argued as just as bad as doing it yourself

ok that was long but basically i've learned from running multico and tfconnect to be honest and transparent with the community but also strict on hateful speech(edited)

i have never and will never understand the concept of "we shouldnt censor hate speech"

and i keep asking the question over and over and i continuously get radio silence:

like sure. I'll grant you that some words can be colloquailsisms(edited)

sure. We could whittle down the list

but even when it was just this-

Because some people tend to use these words either in their country or with their friends/inner circle so they below they can also use then in-game(edited)

it was still met with the general sentiment of "this is a bad thing"

ok

@Retr0 Exactly.

just because words are used for fun within friend groups shouldn't mean that they can use them on a public server

Thank you

^^(edited)

plus, they should reevaluate their sense of humor

Dae are you American by chance?

yea i am

Ok

worst country but unfortunately i am(edited)

^

Not even fucking close lmao

bad shitty country

im joking im j

It has its issues

i think its alright

3rd world 1st world country

but compared to where my family is from it's miles ahead(edited)

very cool

i again dont see how this is relevant

the argument of people not knowing better because of where they were raised doesnt really work here

i was raised in a conservative household and learned to outgrow the hate i was indoctrinated into, and one reason why was because i could get outside opinions in a public space

you can be raised in a place that normalizes hateful speech, but that doesnt mean you need to conform to it, especially when youre connecting on the internet to a site or server that doesnt have one concrete location

Cool. I was raised in a mexican household where we judge individuals by their actions and their beliefs regardless of their word choices.

Should I reject my cultural background and beliefs because some people may be offended by my vocabulary despite my actions and beliefs not being bigoted?

stop saying the n word

no

I don't at all, because I'm not black

tf2 players when you tell them to stop saying the n word

I feel like the filter should just block all slurs and nothing more

I think everyone is tolerant of fuck and shit.

nobody ever said it should block more than that

look dude i literally want ppl to stop saying slurs

i think we can talk on our childhoods all we want, but none of it matters, not mind or yours or anyone elses

that is it

i am not expecting tf2 players to be magically not bigoted anymore

my point is that we are all connecting on one place

The idea that every single person should be held to the American standard on what is and what isn't considered acceptable is cultural imperialism at its finest.

i just want to not read this shit

ITS NOT AN AMERICAN STANDARD

It's not just America.

it is an adult normal person standard

it is a "not bigoted" standard

Please.

Except we aren't, we have over 150 different countries that play here

There is no one official standard in society.

As everyone and every culture is different.

dude i dont care where the fuck you come from you call me a t slur im knocking you to the fucking ground

Steph.

it is a human trait for adults to want the best to come from our fellow man

i'm so damn tired of this argument

Chill.

i'm tired of the goalposts getting dragged around literally everywhere when i literally just want to play tf2 and not have to see ppl screaming slurs in chat

And I wouldn't do that, but I'm not going to be shamed for calling my uncles cholos despite it being both an ethnic slur and a term mexicans use to refer to themselves(edited)

COol

you can do that

whatever

just... not on our tf2 servers?

The issue becomes who decides what is and what isn't acceptable and what gives that person that power?

i dont care

i dont want to argue semantics anymore

I think swears can maybe be left alone or be a separate toggle from slurs

weve done this for literally 3 weeks i am going to lose my mind

If we want to take valve's approach that's great, they ovbiously have the authority over source games.

So if one wants to censor fuck and shit the option is there

but creators has authority over their own servers

I just don't think that it's fair for us to be the ones to determine what is and what isn't acceptable regardless of any context

We have to decide as a team what option we're going with

Creators isn't just 1 person, not everyone here shares the same viewpoints on the issue

we can take inspiration from valve, but we have power over the servers we have as long as we dont try and step on valve's toes

Okay what about this. Could we possibly just ask the community what is acceptable for them to be banned?

And that can be tricky because we all have our own ideas of what would be best

no

Or, as to what Zonical said

Make a vote

We need to come together as a team and take the best of everyone's ideas and work them together into one thing

this.

The community wouldn't even want actual targeted harassment banned lmao

Seeing this chat from some one who isnt part of creators is a big yikes

yeah why is this in visitors

content creators are gone

I say you guys could do this as an option.

because someone who wasnt a staff member brought it up

@tougeFoodService this is a problem in and of itself

just because i dont directly work on creators doesnt mean i cant put my two cents into it

Create a base list of words that you guys want to be blocked by this filter.

This list is presented in entirety to the community. They can choose to add or remove words as they see fit.

yeah direct targeted hatred and harassment is fucked and should be met with an immediate ban

And I don't see any bad coming from us discussing this here unless people leak stuff and try to spin it negatively. I feel like it might help to get some opinions from those we're partnered with

or we could just follow what valve has done, which is really a stance no one can legitimately get upset with since our goal from day 1 was to emulate valve

Words that should never be every unblocked should be stuff like N----r or f@g.(edited)

Yeah.

Like this list.

we've-

Steph.

Please.

i dont think literally anyone has ever advocated for by default blocking the word "fuck" or "shit"

i have only ever wanted to block hard slurs

thats been the goal from the beginning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative there are three major types of pejoratives most people think of (slurs, religious pejoratives, profanity)

Wait a minute.

slurs are the ones people want gone

What does the community think the filter is?

Do they think it bans ever swear word under the sun?

i dont think anyone thinks its gonna censor profanity

When I first heard it I thought it was a temp ban for saying a slur

it originally automuted for 2 weeks after warning you once

warning would get reset per map

nobody had a big problem with this at the time

except for j_nathon

who... well, ya know

the last thing i wanted to say is this ,,, we want the best out our fellow man, no matter the culture or place, american ideologies need not apply; this includes the words that we say to others. while profanity and major religious pejoratives have lost most of their punch, slurs are taken very seriously. they are direct insults to someone for an intrinsic trait. if you are using culture, tradition, or personal lives to validate the use of slurs specifically, it comes off as using argumentative fallacies to validate it. it also allows for actual hateful people to use slurs under those guises which, like i said, is just as bad as using those words yourself. when you are talking to people in real life, actions are more important than the simple words people say, but on the internet and in a tf2 server, all we can judge people by is their words. sprays and custom signs exist, but chat messages are the biggest way people spread hate. in my opinion, if a word marginalizes or insults a specific group, it should be banned; if it doesnt and is seen as simple profanity (fuck, shit, dick), it should be okay. tolerating whatever people say will lead to hate propagating and driving away those less toxic, and you will only cultivate a toxic chat. the only way to be tolerant and accepting is to exercise a certain level of censorship, it is an inevitability to stopping hate

^ this

fucking this

Couldn't agree more with this really

tl;dr, words that marginalize groups of people shouldnt be allowed, general insults are okay, don't tolerate hate

Ok well lets make this damn plugin then

Guys, can anyone make a Breakout category with chat channels, references, and one more just in case?

when i say "lets" i mean "me" because im doing it

I still have my position that we should follow what valve did tit for tat.

It may be controversial but a lot of other things that have happened have always been.

@stephanie Just going to bring in this popular idea.

Pffftt

the plan was to drop the message for everyone but the person sending it

Ah.

moonly's got the right idea

that's 4 for the CS filter

Yeah my suggestion is the same as the csgo setup

Asterisks, toggleable by clients

5 for the CS filter

gonna add my 2 cents after reading this whole thing too i think it isn't relevant what other people have done as creators.tf has the power to not tolerate hate speech and idk if you guys would even want players that use slurs, imo should be part of the "undesirables" so something like that shadowmute or slurs changing to asterisks as default would seriously not damage the server, only the people who still use slurs in the year 2020 (and idk why you would ever wanna cater to these guys) good reason why every multiplayer game pretty much nowadays regardless of type always will block slurs by default, commonly players do not want to see that in chat and since there is a rather young audience for this game mixed in as well being exposed to it on a regular basis will only encourage them to be using such words, which is bad

6 for cs(edited)